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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:00:04 -0900 (AKST)
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Today's Topics:

  1. Making lists of points (W Lewis)
  2. Re: Making lists of points (jpugh@jpugh.org)
  3. Re: Making lists of points (B Potter)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:53:05 -0800 (PST)
From: W Lewis <wiml@hhhh.org>
To: <zealots@shmoo.com>
cc: Adam Shand <larry@spack.net>
Subject: [Zealots] Making lists of points

Has anyone come up with a file format for exchanging lists of
"interesting" points (APs, other nodes, possible sites, whatever)? I've
been writing some homegrown GIS code which could be applicable to keeping
track of wireless nodes, antenna aiming, and so forth (mostly, I just
think GIS is nifty and fun to play with, but I've been using wireless
networks as a target problem). I've gotten to the point I want to be able
to import/export lists of points. In particular, it'd be handy to be able
to display a point-list that's stored on a third party's web server, or
one that's retrieved from GAWD via a query.

Since the GAWD site mentions the desirability of having an XML point-list
format, I thought I'd see if the people on this list have opinions about
what an interchange format should be like before I start defining one for
my own use.

My internal point representation has the following fields:
   Location --- latitude and longitude (soon to include altitude),
                in a well-known datum (WGS84).
   Name --- a short name, hopefully but not necessarily unique;
                something that can be displayed as a map label
   Comment --- Longer descriptive text.
   Address --- A machine-parsable street address.

GAWD is missing many of these (the Locality: field is too free-form to
parse reliably, so I treat it as distinct from Address); on the other hand
it has other fields, such as the provider and technical info, image link,
etc., which my code wouldn't use but which presumably GAWD would want to
preserve in an external format. So a format useful to both GAWD and my
code would want a union of these fields, perhaps along with an indication
of which fields are source data and which are derived from others.

As for the concrete syntax, I don't really like XML for this sort of
thing, despite its current popularity; it's (IMHO) crufty and overly
complex for simple data-interchange. My preference would be for a dirt
simple, very easy-to-parse one-line-per-field format, or (failing that)
something like a perl or openstep plist.

Thoughts, comments?


--__--__--

Message: 2
From: jpugh@jpugh.org
To: <zealots@shmoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zealots] Making lists of points
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:57:40 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"

Why not use a directory. This type of data is exactly what a directory was
built to hold.

Novell's NDS eDirectory is already setup for such a task. Many ways to write
to the directory with the proper permissions and even more ways to read and
search it. eDirectory has the flexibility to allow you to create nearly any
type of field and poplulate it with any type of data.

I know of a site, www.free-electron.com that uses NDS in such a manner. They
are using scripts (Netbasic scripts) that allow for automatic changes
provided you have the proper rights. You can authenticate to it and do some
manipulation of your data. Another site, www.digitalme.com uses the
directory to store information about sites and yourself in "cards"..entries
into the directory that only you can manage.

JP

----- Original Message -----
From: "W Lewis" <wiml@hhhh.org>
To: <zealots@shmoo.com>
Cc: "Adam Shand" <larry@spack.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: [Zealots] Making lists of points


> Has anyone come up with a file format for exchanging lists of
> "interesting" points (APs, other nodes, possible sites, whatever)? I've
> been writing some homegrown GIS code which could be applicable to keeping
> track of wireless nodes, antenna aiming, and so forth (mostly, I just
> think GIS is nifty and fun to play with, but I've been using wireless
> networks as a target problem). I've gotten to the point I want to be able
> to import/export lists of points. In particular, it'd be handy to be able
> to display a point-list that's stored on a third party's web server, or
> one that's retrieved from GAWD via a query.
>
> Since the GAWD site mentions the desirability of having an XML point-list
> format, I thought I'd see if the people on this list have opinions about
> what an interchange format should be like before I start defining one for
> my own use.
>
> My internal point representation has the following fields:
>    Location --- latitude and longitude (soon to include altitude),
>                 in a well-known datum (WGS84).
>    Name --- a short name, hopefully but not necessarily unique;
>                 something that can be displayed as a map label
>    Comment --- Longer descriptive text.
>    Address --- A machine-parsable street address.
>
> GAWD is missing many of these (the Locality: field is too free-form to
> parse reliably, so I treat it as distinct from Address); on the other hand
> it has other fields, such as the provider and technical info, image link,
> etc., which my code wouldn't use but which presumably GAWD would want to
> preserve in an external format. So a format useful to both GAWD and my
> code would want a union of these fields, perhaps along with an indication
> of which fields are source data and which are derived from others.
>
> As for the concrete syntax, I don't really like XML for this sort of
> thing, despite its current popularity; it's (IMHO) crufty and overly
> complex for simple data-interchange. My preference would be for a dirt
> simple, very easy-to-parse one-line-per-field format, or (failing that)
> something like a perl or openstep plist.
>
> Thoughts, comments?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zealots mailing list
> Zealots@shmoo.com
> http://www.shmoo.com/mailman/listinfo/zealots
>


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:35:06 -0900 (AKST)
From: B Potter <gdead@shmoo.com>
To: W Lewis <wiml@hhhh.org>
cc: zealots@shmoo.com, Adam Shand <larry@spack.net>
Subject: Re: [Zealots] Making lists of points

> GAWD is missing many of these (the Locality: field is too free-form to
> parse reliably, so I treat it as distinct from Address); on the other hand
> it has other fields, such as the provider and technical info, image link,
> etc., which my code wouldn't use but which presumably GAWD would want to
> preserve in an external format. So a format useful to both GAWD and my
> code would want a union of these fields, perhaps along with an indication
> of which fields are source data and which are derived from others.

When you say "machine parsable" address, what do you mean?  like a street
address?  ie: 1234 anywhere St.?  We labeled it "location:" instead of
address b/c (as I recall) so folks didn't need to know exactly the street
address.  There are a few (not many, but a few) entries like "Bucknell
University Library".  For the people familiar with the area, that would
make a lot more sense to them than the street address.  Or for corners
("California and Divisidaro") it comes it handy to. 

However I think there has been some abuse in the freeformness of
it.  There are several entries for entire cities ;)  How would you refine
it?  ie: what format would you define for "address"?

It would be great if we could setup a format that fits your needs, GAWD's
needs, and anyone elses.  I don't think the comments need to be included
in the format, but, and I"m not sure if the the "public" feild is all that
useful.  However, I think the following fields would be required (from
GAWD's perspective).  These are pretty much analogs to how the DB is
structured.  *'s are required

location (a fuzzy address) *
city *
state or prov (if applicable)
country (ISO code) *
postal code
lat and long (in decimal)
encryption (type)
auth keys
date added to system
protocol (802.11, etc) *
provider
picture URL
contact name
contact URL
MAC address
 
> As for the concrete syntax, I don't really like XML for this sort of
> thing, despite its current popularity; it's (IMHO) crufty and overly
> complex for simple data-interchange. My preference would be for a dirt
> simple, very easy-to-parse one-line-per-field format, or (failing that)
> something like a perl or openstep plist.

we were thinking of "non-verified" XML.  ie: there would be no DTD, just a
specification of sorts.  There are several perl (and other) libraries to
handle this sort of set-up.  They work pretty well, and are pretty easy to
rip together.  Curator, the guy who coded GAWD, put together a book review
XML spec using these loose libraries in like a night.  It actually worked
out really well.

thoughts?

later

bruce


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