Return-Path: Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu by po11.mit.edu (8.9.2/4.7) id TAA23040; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA04030; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-shaolin-temple (THE-SHAOLIN-TEMPLE.MIT.EDU [18.247.2.125]) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA18229; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200110212311.TAA18229@melbourne-city-street.mit.edu> X-Sender: revprez@po14.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:11:02 -0400 To: Luke Phelan From: "Prez H. Cannady" Subject: Re: 5.5 million people at risk of dying in afghanistan Cc: Marc F Rios , , , , In-Reply-To: References: <3BD332B7.64E19D63@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:27 PM 10/21/01 , Luke Phelan wrote > >please direct me to your source detailing the nuclear capability of >whatever group or groups you are referring to, and their ability to >infiltrate such a device into a major metropolitan area; i think it will >make for fun reading. You're pretty funny. For lengthy reading, here's something I posted to another list three years ago. Leventhal, Paul "Nuclear Terrorism," http://www.nci.org/p/pl-bc.htm If your attention span is as short as I suspect it is -- considering how incredibly out of the loop you are to even try and question the *existence* of a growing threat of nuclear terrorism -- here's some quick quotes for you. "A terrorist with a little technical know-how and 20 pounds of smuggled plutonium could make a bomb powerful enough to destroy a city. That's what we should be worried about." New York Times, May 13, 1996 "A special study prepared for the task force by a team of former U.S. nuclear weapons designers has established that crude nuclear bomb making, while not as simple as once supposed, can be accomplished with a sufficient quantity of reactor-grade plutonium (the kind separated by industry in some countries from the spent fuel of a power reactor) or highly enriched uranium (the kind used to fuel many research reactors) in metallic or possibly even in oxide form." Report of the International Task Force on Prevention of Nuclear Terrorism, 1986 "At the lowest level of sophistication, a potential proliferating state or subnational group using designs and technologies no more sophisticated than those used in first- generation nuclear weapons could build a nuclear weapon from reactor-grade plutonium that would have an assured, reliable yield of one or a few kilotons (and a probable yield significantly higher than that)." U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Arms Control and Nonproliferation, October 1, 1996 "It is not a scare tactic to say that an Oklahoma City or World Trade Center bombing of the future could involve a terrorist's nuclear device." Hazel O'Leary, U.S. Secretary of Energy, Before the House Commerce Committee Subcommittee on Energy and Power, June 21, 1995 >before the bombing began the number of afghans facing starvation was >measured in the thousands or tens of thousands. Actually, it was well over three million -- and that was just the estimate. >since the bombing that number is now counted in the millions. Considering the possible variations resulting from estimation methods by NGOs and PVOs, and their political interest in advocating peace bullshit, the announcement came as no surprise. They said the same thing in 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000. The threat's always the same, and the humanitarian "crisis" is always "looming." Only this time -- just like in 1998 -- they can cut back on relief operations and pretend like the US is involved. I'm sure their predecessors who served valiantly in the World Wars would turn their heads in disgust. >the u.s. has refused to coordinate or share information with relief >groups. That is entirely incorrect and also counter-doctrine. You're looking for coordination and information sharing at the wrong place. The joint task force commander and the regional unified commander are responsible for that, and of last report they're doing their job pretty well. That NGOs and PVOs don't LIKE working with the military isn't their problem. The only responsibility CINCCENT has is keeping the media happy about the whole thing. Unfortunately (well, I'm pleased as a mu'fuca about it), the reality is that Afghanistan is unsalvagable, and the responsibility lies solely on the Taliban and the Afghan people. We're even being nice by at least pretending we can do something about that. >i can claim no responsibility for the actions of any government but my >own, more so since i live in a "free" and "democratic" state. Sure you can. That's what war is all about and that's how every major power has interpreted international law for the past sixty years. A people can be held responsible and they are no longer sacrosanct. Civilians are not protected themselves, they are simply not -- in general theory -- in the category of targets of military value. If civilians happen to be in areas that are of military value (in this case, any given area the United States is interested in is measured in square feet, as opposed square miles not more than forty years ago), then they're just the unfortunate casualties of war. There is no major legal or ethical interpretation that contradicts this understanding, and the impact of civilian deaths has more to do with the politics of precision warfare and CNN than any real moral issue. >even a model as philosophically vacuous as cause and effect would seem to >indicate that when i want to know who is morally to blame the first place >i should look is a mirror. This is a really meaningless non-observation. >(the guardian article marc first referred to is the source for the first >three of my claims, see: >http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,578213,00.html) And you have yet to explain how it ties into your non-argument so far. >i would appreciate it if the government, since they are hell bent already >on protecting my moral well being, would do me the favour of keeping more >blood off my hands. there is enough there as is. The government does not exist to protect your moral well being anymore than it exists to protect your individual liberties or security. The government's role is to preserve society. That we do so with the knowledge that civil liberty promotes stability has nothing to do with your personal pet peeves. Since you're interests are not only in the minority, but in the understandably disliked and dismissed fringe, the government has no reason and no obligation to pay attention to you. Fortunately, you have conservative commentators more than willing to devote time to explaining how and why your thinking is so wrong. Rev Prez * * * Presley H. Cannady, Class of 2002, Electrical Engineering Executive Director, College Republicans CR Website Rev Prez aka Scriptchya the Seventh Disciple aka Deez Nutz REMIX and Platinum Playaz Forever Famous -----------------------<"It's The Militia" - Freddie Foxx> -------- <410 Memorial Drive, Cambridge, MA 02139>-----------<(617) 225 8420> <"Reality drops like atomics strapped to gravity bombs" - Rev Prez> -------<"Word is bond, son....heed the warnin: - Rev Prez> Platinum Playa Productions------------------ Rev Prez "The G.O.D. Rhymez v.3"-------- <------REMIX and the Central Region Freestylin Alliance------------> <"You got below average intelligence and poor penmanship" - Canibus>