Meeting of the SIPB Executive Committee

Sun Oct 14 14:10:35 EDT 1990  == meeting called to order 

those here:  amgreene, qjb, bjaspan, web, leira | jik jtidwell jcbourne

missing members:  marc 

others: kkkken, dcctdw, lnp, shadow, | simsong, mlbarrow


The proposed changes are changing. 

Meeting Time changes
====================

* several conflicts for sipb members. 
* mon 7:30 was originally 'cause there were few conflicts. 
* tradition not good enough. 

For: 

* everyone knows it's time 

Against: 

* Can't please everyone.  People will ALWAYS have conflicts. 


Suggestions: 
-----------
* floating meeting day. 
	- confuses people 
* floating meeting per month 
	- works brain cells too much. 
* meeting 15 minutes later
	- helps those who have things that end at 7:30
	- doesn't help voting bc. we defer the elections to when we have
		quorum anyways
* poll everyone for good times.
	- need to do this each term?
* miraculously find a better time

---  all changes will confuse Mary's
-----------------------------------------

Robots rules suggested and nuked.

Motion to drop consideration of time changes because no time is gonna
make everyone happy, and mon is as good as(if not better) than any
other. 

passed and dropped 



Meeting Cruft
=============

* too much fluff 
* analogy - Watchmaker meetings
	- were fluffy but fun
	- when dan left, they became
		-boring  
		-business like 
		-terse 
	- sipb just wanna have fun.... 
* analogy - lsc gen com meetings 
	- boring because there's just the agenda and flaming on it. 
* Suggest = void er jokes from meetings
* Time spent to tell what one's doing (eg Backup) teaches 
	others of us.  So, it's good.
	- but meeting isn't place to go into gory details 
* by By-laws, meetings are for what the EC says its for.  so there. 
* meeting is the best time to discuss things that need sipb group
	discussions 
* SUGGEST = those things pushed to "outside meeting" or "after meeting"
		should (maybe) go to the end of the meeting.
		- start a new topic "deferred discussion topic" 
* meetings have recently been short anyways 
	- it's what the sipb's for anyways
* SUGGEST = deferred meetings should be "deferred to (specific) time" 
	- in our experience with SIPB, it don't work.
* Those who don't like current meetings don't come regularly anyways.
	- exceptions: to make quorum 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
push
Foreshadow: 
	- deactivation 
	- voluntary deactivation
	- absentee ballots
	- sipb changes..  
		- software hackers (specifically athena) 
pop
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* SUGGEST = Nuke Telecommunications Report 
	- Why have an Athena Report? 
* SUGGEST = Combine and mutate Telecommunications Report and Athena
	    Report to MIT Computing Report
**********************************************************************
	Mutated by Chairman's Discretion
**********************************************************************

* Solution: defer details to end of each meeting, but put them in the
	appropriate section of the minutes.
* Part of the problem is a motivation problem leading to a "who wants to
do... " 


Membership
==========

* fxzane gonna break qjb's record 
* getting quorum is causing problem.
* Lots of new members 
	- causes problems because many are counted in quorum needed, but
		not there 
* This will (hopefully) be changed by the new definition of active.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
push 
Perl vs Awk. 

Less filling! 
Tastes Great! 
Turing Equiv!
pop
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* SUGGEST = add to "THE QUESTION"
	- What are you going to do for the sipb?


SIPB Evolution
==============
* Problems
	- Sipb doesn't at present have a well defined purpose 
	- We do lots of things now that are good, but not a big
		directive
		eg: 
		- publication 
		- mitvma 
		- mac transfer 
		- answering questions 
		- net news
	- the things we are doing are pretty much static actions
	- we've changed since '82 
	- need to re-write the goals of sipb.
	- Athena has caught up and taking up the neato ideas that 
		we started (dialup, scanner, latex, ... )

* We should have a moderated discussion
	- don't want to get into an "are we stagnating" flamage
	- should discuss what is the sipb.
* SUGGEST: Change statement of purpose 
* Should this be discussed on a Monday meeting? 
	- more fluff? 
* Mac abused
* No longer advocacy 
	- but will become more of an important role for us 
		as the pc platform comes, and we get some to hack on 
		and we get more familiar with it. 
* We've pretty much ignored the PC side of computing. 
* SUGGESTION = yearly reconsider of the state of the SIPB
* SUGGESTION = we should (gag) follow the model of the CAC '90 
	- follow the 5 paragraph essay 
	tell'em what you're gonna tell'em, 
	tell'em 
	tell'em what you told'em
	- ask'em what you're gonna ask'em 
	ask'em 
	tell'em what you asked'em 
* SUGGESTION = one member of ec will put together a working committee 
	to find what sipb should be... new goal for sipb 
	- SIPB the next generation .. 
	- let's have the klingons.... 
	- the ec member will be on the committee
* Will announce committee formation @ tomorrow's meeting 
	-bjaspan will do it
	-if he's no longer on the ec, jik will do it.. 

**********************************************************************
****************  MOTION  ********************************************

The EC shall form a working committee to discuss the purpose and future
direction of the SIPB.  Barr3y Jaspan will select the membership of this
committee subject to EC approval and he will serve as EC representative
on this committee.

-Moved by amgreene
-Seconded by qjb

Discussion: 
	methods of investagation up to committee; should present a
	written report by the Monday after Thanksgiving

Move to call the question
Favor: 6 
Against: 0 

Motion passed
**********************************************************************




Amendment to Article III
========================

Membership 

Abstaintion to not be counted as vote. Otherwise it's no different than
a No. 

* SUGGEST = changing the name of the abstain vote to pass 
	- blech.. why bother? 
* SUGGEST = changing definition of active member 
	- Proposed new AIIIS2 
**********************************************************************
*************** Amendment to By Laws *********************************
	Article III, Section 2

"An active member of the SIPB is defined as a member in good standing
who has, during the preceeding month, both performed some service for
the SIPB and attended at least one meeting.  Further elaboration of
these requirements is at the Chairman's discretion.  Any member not
conforming to these minimum criteria shall be classified as inactive.
The status of any member immediately following any academic vacation of
duration of a week or more shall be defined to be the status of that
member immediately upon beginning that vacation."

Moved by amgreene
Seconded by bjaspan

Discussion: friendly amendments are made (reflected above)

Move to call the question 
Favor: 6 
Against: 0
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************

* Under proposed change, nominations are automatically withdrawn but
	can be reinstated 
* Change wording for quorum meeting scheduling

************** Article III, Section 3 ********************************

Absentee ballots 

* Problem is we aren't getting people to meetings. 
	- Absentee ballots don't fix the problem. 
	- There are some REAL cases where someone can't get to meetings
		but not going for political or lazy reason does not 
		justify absentee
* Need to also Inform the nominee that it's important to be at the
	quorum call meeting 
	- cc the quorum call to them
	- somehow let them know that we are going to some sort of effort
		to get quorum
* Reasons for not having quorum 
	- Chairman not deactivating = harder to get quorum 
	- Chairman hasn't deactivated people who are being useful to
		the SIPB because it's a bad precedent.
* SUGGEST = chairman decides whether to allow specific absentee ballot
* SUGGEST = absentee ballots don't count to quorum 
	- amend : only a portion to count to quorum  
* Want absentee ballots only for cases when you can't make it.
* Where do we define the line between a needed absentee ballot and not?
* SUGGEST = chairman can reject absentee ballot.
	- dangerous!
* SUGGEST = absentee ballots are divided to be 25% of the vote if we
	have enough for quorum 
* The Grilling scares some people
* Should be prefaced with some sort of disclaimer in that membership 
	doesn't depend on it. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
push 
Digression: 
* SUGGEST = the one who nominates should also let the nominee know
	it's not intended to be a torture chamber. 
* SUGGEST = questions at grilling should be more pertinant with a few
	asides instead of vice versa
pop
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* SUGGEST = absentee ballot doesn't count for attendance
* SUGGEST = a vote can be postponed and rescheduled by a majority of
		those present
* SUGGEST = a minimum percentage of votes must be absentee before a 
		vote to postpone.

**********************************************************************
	Article III	Section 3


Any person applying for full membership in the SIPB shall undergo a
probationary period, in which that person may be familiarized with the
operation of the Board.  This probationary period shall last at least
four (4) weeks, and the prospective member must attend at least four
(4) meetings of the Board.  After such probationary period has been
served, that person shall become an active full member of the Board by
the following procedure: a motion shall be entertained to consider
that applicant for membership, and this motion shall be carried by a
majority of the active full members of the Board present.  The meeting
at which the membership elections for those nominated by the above
procedure shall be held may be scheduled to be no sooner than six (6)
days following the meeting at which the motion to consider the
applicant(s) for membership was entertained.  The Board shall make
every reasonable attempt to notify all active full members at least
four (4) days preceeding this meeting.  These conditions satisfied,
new membership shall be obtained by garnering the floor of one half of
the total active full membership and the floor of two thirds of the
active full members voting (floor (total\_active\_full\_membership/2)
\& floor (voting * 2/3)).  For the purpose of this calculation,
abstentions shall not count as votes.  Absentee ballots shall be
permitted to read ``yes'' or ``no,'' but not ``abstain,'' for each
prospective.  Quorum for the election shall be the number of votes
needed to pass plus two; absentee ballots shall be counted towards
quorum.  If at least 25\% of the ballots are absentee, and a majority
of those present and eligible to vote feel that there are too many
absentee ballots to have a meaningful election, they may instruct the
Chairman to reschedule it.  If quorum is not acheived, or if the
prospective member is not present, the election shall be rescheduled
by the Chairman, and all absentee ballots shall be voided (and must be
resubmitted for the rescheduled election).  If, on two seperate
occasions, quorum is acheived but the prospective member is not
present, the nomination of that prospective member shall be
automatically withdrawn.

Moved by amgreene
Seconded by bjaspan

Move to call the question
Favor: 8
Against: 0 

Motion passed
**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
********* Article III, Section IV:************************************


Revocation of membership status shall be accomplished by the procedure
outlined in Section 3, subject to identical restrictions upon meeting
schedules and approval required for the carry of the respective
motions, except that the member in question need not be present.  A
member's membership status may be suspended, until the aforementioned
procedure is complete, by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the SIPBEC.


Discussion: 
	'()

Moved by amgreene
Seconded by qjb

Move to call the question
Favor: 8
Against: 0 

Motion passed
**********************************************************************


Meeting Adjourned at 
Sun Oct 14 16:51:19 EDT 1990

Minutes taken by web.
