========================================================= NOTE: These are DRAFT minutes until this note is removed. ========================================================= Minutes of the SIPB Meeting of 2013-07-08 The meeting was called to order at 7:30:19 by adehnert In attendance were Voting members: codetaku adehnert iannucci tboning dvorak42 dove sqshemet pquimby Associate members: jhawk jdreed glasgall quentin tlyu | afarrell Prospectives: k_sunter | khaines Robbie Guests: Administrivia: glas: After the weekend and today's discussion, I move again to allocate 1600 for 2 more sets of UPS batteries. We have discussed this to death on sipb-office and s-m-r khaL I think there are serious open issues. Alleged details email before, no one dug up. Still not clear that we need to purchace this quantity of additional, and not feasable to just test, and futhermore not clear that spending money on batteries is most urnget UPS-related need. No statement about timeframe for this requirement. Plenty of discussion still to be had, no apparent time rpressure. quentin: I think referrring to me whenI sad prev email. As I'm sure you know, don't feel comfortable forwarding, did summarize relavant points of price. Itmighjt have been today, don't remember. Onl quesiton I saw were question that seemed orthogaonal to question if UPSs need new batteries. Only outstanding was testing exsitwing. jhawk: Big question still is what other kinds of major purchaces we intende to make FY. thing irrespnsible to spend 10% of buddjget at beginnign of FY with no time pressure adeh: jhawk, volunteering? jhawk: Yes. Days to small number of weekes, whatever seems required or ap ian: so, possible outcomes. Nearly indifferent. One outcome. One of may nokay are just replace batteries and move on. Sometimes this is a good thing. Second outcome, postopone decision, measure batteries. I feel like pepl have already priced out and done work. If we table for n weeks, I kind of doubt that anything will happen. I think it's entirely possible that if we just bit bullet and moved scripts to W91 then this would be a non-issue quentin: Not a non-issue jhawk: if batteries dying no problem ian: move all hardware out of smr, no problem. adeh: Unlikely to happen. coutl move chunk. But we're going to want at least one ups ian: besides scripts and sipb-noc, what things in SMR care battery backup. adeh: 2 fpor reduencenty quentin: Question is do we spend enough to spend 2400 every 5 years. I think the answer is yes. ian: I am so far on outside, no idea of issues involved, I'm surprised scripts hasn't moved. glas: Long story. tlyuL qyuestion about jhawk's poposeal. Methodoologyu? jhawk: Ther are a couple choiuces. hanve't made determination. Either buy a device or homebrew somthing. quentinL Criteria for good vs bad jahwl: Coinoare discharge curve to spec sheet or new battery pqu: What's a discharge curve? ian: discharge curve area underwhich corresponds to energy produced by battery. High, long, and flat is good. tlyuL would quesiton whether single discharge curve is adewquate. jhawk: think not level of diuscussion useful now. quentin: Not worth tryuing to test. jhawk, do you know how old they are? glasL heardfigures of 15 yrs jhawk clearly false quentin: designed for 3-5 years. We are outside that. tl: any ad-hoc testing is only likely to tell us if they're unequ bad, not if they're good. quentin: i agree [Motion passes 8-1-7] adehnert: 1600 is allocated for UPSs. jhawk: wanted to say expected better of proponents of this motion. adeh: My impression was that most of the discussion of the UPS batteris itself was by me and you. Although I may be confused. There were some mostly side comments by various other people. I think we had the involved people present here. jhawk: I just thought the decisoin was no dv: motion to allocate 22k of money to xvm has gotten for purchace of hardware. glas: a good chunk of this money is earmarked by donors for buying cool hardware, a good chunk is earmarked for xvm adeh: not that relevant, probably classify as project jhawl: please quantify good chunk las; 15k from 1, 15k forom another. first 15k cool hardware, second 15k xvm. Taking 15k for xvm and then the balance out of second 15. ian: clearly least liquid funds that we can for this purchace. jhawk; Unles s you know aobut other purcahces we don't. ian: in future we might decide to uprade raid , or replace unity that fails and reboots itself every week. ian: this is unbacked up production data glas: and it doens' thave a backup battery quentin: we don't have an allocation for that,. Would like to get allocation in now so that before smr work. ian: raised this because you asked jhawk: didn't expect answer to be yes! ian: ANyway, clearly least liquid, would like to poiunt out several xvm maintainers to use old xvm production hardware for other sipb prjects quentin: to host other projects as vms, primarily. ian: Remainder not earmarked for xvm compensated for by new hardware adeh: intention of xvm project to release old hardware for general sipb use quentin: that is the intent, probably in the form of a private vm cloud. Remains to be seen sripts: some projects appreciate hardware not in that form. ian: we only have 8 manchines, but somewhat of a spectrum glas: for example, if someone were to want aperture-science, that would probably be fine. tl: question about intent of old hardware, are terms of restricted donations such that attach to hardware dv: trerms primarily to be used as xvm prod cluster, past that there are no restrcitions. ian: We are not going to launder the money, but 5 years form now it should n jahwk: Opinon of SIPB treasurer? ian: ...What? DO you solicit the o[pinoni of treasuree on RAM jhawk: if 22k I would. glas; we've gotten 4 hardware qupotes at this oiiunt ian: here's my question. If oyu imagine treasere responding to such request, what would expect her to say? "Oh, that's a lot of money!" "Oh, we don't have that much money" jhawk: feel like this purchace is probably meritourius, but hard to judge that. The process happened wihtout the degree of transparency that I could have appreciated. If we approve this probably riht decision, but process didn't work the way it should have. THreasere would have asked a lot of the right wuestions and made me feel more happy about this prucage. Wpould like to hope that officers figure out how to make furghter purchaces of this magnityde, then we will doa better job of conducitg it with adequate transparency, whatever that means, and making sure reasonable question sare answered. adeh: what the hell, we don't actually have rule of order quentin: this is not I believe the third time that the xvm project has explcitiyly solicited donantions, details different each time, I don't remmber complain g alst two times. ian: did the xvm project bother to make an allocation before board for prior purchaces? quentinL the one bought with siupb funds, not wqith donations ian: what we are doing here is more transparent. The doanttions pocess can be imporved. If ytou believe other prjects, and can identify needs, well well within our power to solicit donations for those projects. adehL move that the ec discuss approapraite procdeudres for handing large purchaces and doations in the next month or two jhawL reason to think ec is capable of function in the next month or two> If not, maybe set yourself less resprictive timefrahme quentin: mentioned potentiall allocating more of large funds to disks and raid and stuff adeh: by august 15, if practical in next month or two quentin: don't think ec is right group to do that ian: ec is totallyt right grou to do that. Donations are awesome, spending money is aweomse, the ec sohould come up with a procedure for that. jhawl EC is proxy for treasurer ian: and chair, and vice, and whoever else adehL EC will discuss or establish committe to discuss or solicity appropruate input for large purchaces, ideally by end of summer, by october 15. [Motion passes] adeh: further discussion on XVM allocation? quentin: spend from main account. One possible interstin gquestion is if it should come out from 1s&t account adeh: our sao main account jhawk: motion should not specify the source of the funds. adehL allocation 22k to xvm logically speaking from donations for purposes of buying replacement hardware. xvm intent is old prodhardware will be returned to siupb pool for sipb private cloud or other projects. jhawk: how on-target is allocation? glas: we have four quotes. Range from 21.5 to 23? ian: overshoots by at most 500. quentin: it's within 10%. ian: I thikn overages are not something we have to wrry about. quentin: with plenty of apdding you could say 25k. ian: the amount of money we spend is going to be the same whether or not we make this motion with padding. [Motion passes 11-1] quentinL next time we should just get hardware donations. dvorak42: We tried that. ian: i would like to point out that some of us have donation experience. If you think you could write a good grant porposal and have a project that might want tdoantions, talk to me or others to make this happen and be awesome. dove: last meeting I allocated 15 for a power supply for sipb defcon. I am now aware that the current power supply is sufficient and would liek to release those funds. Can we get an update on prox wars? dvL trying to arrange a meeting with a bunch of people form CAC and DSL. adehL is semo involved? dvL Mark talked to semo a while ago and is talking to CAC. Since he hsasn't outright said no, he's probably wokring on it. UNfortunately people are on vacation. jhawLk I would make the suggestion that ou walk into phl's office and introducte yourseflf. dvL tried going into CAC to see him on Friday, but he wasn't there. adeh: any objections to dove's possible non-motin? Great. Thing does not get rejected. [Note: The secretary's computer crashed, and minutes were apparently unsaved past this point (no, I don't know how, I both thought I saved and thought it autosaved). Apologies. If there was anything said that was ommitted (I know there was, but if you remember anything important), please email me. Sorry again.] Project updates: glasgall: In case you didn't hear it at the last meeting, XVM will be migrating to Precise <>. There will be VM downtime, though we'll try to keep it minimal. I'll be announcing this at every meeting until it happens. adehnert: Then it's SMR rewiring, and Scripts migration. dove: We're starting to work on the IAP website infrastructure so that we can recruit the next coordinator. I can't do it, I have a thesis to write. If you're interested in working on that come talk to us. afarrell: If you were looking to learn web programnming and want mentorship, this is a good way to do that. New Prospective Introductions: k_sunter: Hi, I'm Kristen, I'm actually a grad student at Harvard but well within our power to solicit donations for those projects. adehL move that the ec discuss approapraite procdeudres for handing large purchaces and doations in the next month or two jhawL reason to think ec is capable of function in the next month or two> If not, maybe set yourself less resprictive timefrahme quentin: mentioned potentiall allocating more of large funds to disks and raid and stuff adeh: by august 15, if practical in next month or two quentin: don't think ec is right group to do that ian: ec is totallyt right grou to do that. Donations are awesome, spending money is aweomse, the ec sohould come up with a procedure for that. jhawl EC is proxy for treasurer ian: and chair, and vice, and whoever else adehL EC will discuss or establish committe to discuss or solicity appropruate input for large purchaces, ideally by end of summer, by october 15. [Motion passes] adeh: further discussion on XVM allocation? quentin: spend from main account. One possible interstin gquestion is if it should come out from 1s&t account adeh: our sao main account jhawk: motion should not specify the source of the funds. adehL allocation 22k to xvm logically speaking from donations for purposes of buying replacement hardware. xvm intent is old prodhardware will be returned to siupb pool for sipb private cloud or other projects. jhawk: how on-target is allocation? glas: we have four quotes. Range from 21.5 to 23? ian: overshoots by at most 500. quentin: it's within 10%. ian: I thikn overages are not something we have to wrry about. quentin: with plenty of apdding you could say 25k. ian: the amount of money we spend is going to be the same whether or not we make this motion with padding. [Motion passes 11-1] quentinL next time we should just get hardware donations. dvorak42: We tried that. ian: i would like to point out that some of us have donation experience. If you think you could write a good grant porposal and have a project that might want tdoantions, talk to me or others to make this happen and be awesome. dove: last meeting I allocated 15 for a power supply for sipb defcon. I am now aware that the current power supply is sufficient and would liek to release those funds. Can we get an update on prox wars? dvL trying to arrange a meeting with a bunch of people form CAC and DSL. adehL is semo involved? dvL Mark talked to semo a while ago and is talking to CAC. Since he hsasn't outright said no, he's probably wokring on it. UNfortunately people are on vacation. jhawLk I would make the suggestion that ou walk into phl's office and introducte yourseflf. dvL tried going into CAC to see him on Friday, but he wasn't there. adeh: any objections to dove's possible non-motin? Great. Thing does not get rejected. [Note: The secretary's computer crashed, and minutes were apparently unsaved past this point (no, I don't know how, I both thought I saved and thought it autosaved). Apologies. If there was anything said that was ommitted (I know there was, but if you remember anything important), please email me. Sorry again.] Project updates: glasgall: In case you didn't hear it at the last meeting, XVM will be migrating to Precise <>. There will be VM downtime, though we'll try to keep it minimal. I'll be announcing this at every meeting until it happens. adehnert: Then it's SMR rewiring, and Scripts migration. dove: We're starting to work on the IAP website infrastructure so that we can recruit the next coordinator. I can't do it, I have a thesis to write. If you're interested in working on that come talk to us. afarrell: If you were looking to learn web programnming and want mentorship, this is a good way to do that. New Prospective Introductions: k_sunter: Hi, I'm Kristen, I'm actually a grad student at Harvard but I'm working at MIT, and I was an undergrad here. I'm in applied physics, which falls under course six. My thesis advisor is in course six. Robbie: Hi, I'm Robbie. I'm a student at CMU and checking SIPB out. adehnert: Oh, are you the friend achernya is trying to get on Zephyr? Robbie: Maybe? dwilson: How did you find out about SIPB? Robbie: cross-realm khaines: I'm Kit. I'm a rising junior in course 18. I like computers. I'm interested in everything that doesn't involve Java. Other: jdreed: There is a stack of Tech/Keep Calm and Trust In Science tshirts in the back. There are large, XL, and 2XL. Please take them. Other other: '() The meeting was adjourned at 8:17:00. Minutes taken and submitted by sqshemet.