From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Sat Jul 7 20:05:27 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->eichin SUB: institute maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA29208; Sat, 7 Jul 90 19:50:13 EDT Received: from PORTNOY.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26175; Sat, 7 Jul 90 19:50:10 EDT Received: by PORTNOY.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07407; Sat, 7 Jul 90 19:50:06 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 90 19:50:06 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9007072350.AA07407@PORTNOY.MIT.EDU> To: eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Subject: institute maps [1766] rar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU eve 07/06/90 16:40 (10 lines) Subject: Re: Digitized ID pictures The MIT floor plans have already been digitized. It was done by the Office of Facilities Management. They have a file for each building/floor. There is a program called CadView that runs on a PC that allows people to use these plans. You can open up a building/ floor and point at individual rooms with a mouse. Choosing options will tell you who "owns" the space, how big (square feet) it is, etc. You can select multiple rooms and get total area. It also has a "ruler" that allows to to point to two positions and it will tell you the distance between the points. The interface could stand improving, but it works. See OFMS if you want access. --[1766]-- (pref = [1765], nref = [1767]) From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Sat Jul 7 20:11:41 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach SUB: Re: Digitized ID pictures Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA29280; Sat, 7 Jul 90 20:11:03 EDT Received: from PORTNOY.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26341; Sat, 7 Jul 90 20:11:01 EDT Received: by PORTNOY.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07433; Sat, 7 Jul 90 20:10:59 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 90 20:10:59 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9007080010.AA07433@PORTNOY.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach Subject: Re: Digitized ID pictures Thanks for the info... I will get in touch with the OFM and see if they've done anything to port this to Athena. _Mark_ From rar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Sun Jul 8 19:18:39 1990 SUM: Roger A. Roach ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: Digitized Floor Plans Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA01248; Sun, 8 Jul 90 13:53:00 EDT Received: from RAR.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04847; Sun, 8 Jul 90 13:52:53 EDT Received: by RAR.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21264; Sun, 8 Jul 90 13:53:33 -0400 Message-Id: <9007081753.AA21264@RAR.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Subject: Re: Digitized Floor Plans In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 07 Jul 90 20:10:59 -0400. <9007080010.AA07433@PORTNOY.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 90 13:53:31 EDT From: Roger A. Roach I can assure you that they have not done anything to port this to Athena. They hired an outside contractor to write the package for the INSITE consortium which is a partnership formed by a number of colleges and universities to maintain INSITE which is a system written bu MIT to track usages of space (classrooms, offices, laboratories, etc.). It uses a set of device drives for the PC from a company called Graphic Software Systems. They are pretty security conscious, at least when it comes to the software. There is a security block that fits on to the serial port to permit its use. I was interested in seeing if we could port the files to the Macintosh (MacDraw, MacCad, etc.) and they were not interested. The director of OFMS is Kreon Cyros. The person in charge of the project is Cara Noferi. She helped me install in on our PS/2. If you would like to come to W91 and see the package (I don't have a complete set of floor plans, just the ones I am interested in), you are welcome. BTW, the floor plans are constructed in layers. Outer building shell is one, the innner walls, the next. Other were for electrical, plumbing, telephone, network overlays. I think both Jeff Schiller and Dennis Baron are up on this package. I would be very interested in what comes of this. Roger % f kreon_cyros@mit.edu [MIT.EDU] Cyros, Kreon L e19-451 (617) 253-6168 FACIL MGMT SYSTEMS, Director, Office Of Facilities Management Systems %From wlcarrol@MIT.EDU Sun Jul 8 19:18:39 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: wlcarrol@MIT.EDU->eichin@MIT.EDU SUB: [eichin : Re: Digitized ID pictures] Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA01695; Sun, 8 Jul 90 18:39:15 EDT Received: from BEEBLEBROX.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03126; Sun, 8 Jul 90 18:38:52 EDT From: wlcarrol@MIT.EDU Received: by beeblebrox.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04011; Sun, 8 Jul 90 18:38:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 90 18:38:58 -0400 Message-Id: <9007082238.AA04011@beeblebrox.MIT.EDU> To: eichin@MIT.EDU Subject: [eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU : Re: Digitized ID pictures] Hey. Are you serious? If so, give me a call. ------- Forwarded transaction [1765] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Everybody 07/06/90 16:15 (12 lines) Subject: Re: Digitized ID pictures So, is anyone interested in digitizing a full set of the MIT blueprints? That way you could do a zoom into the office location (perhaps starting from a world map :-) If there's an 11x17 scanner around, that would be ideal... 8.5x11 would do, though... Send me email if you want to work on this (by helping get stuff scanned during the daytime, or having access to an all night scanner, or whatever, donating disk space, hacking viewer software... the blueprints themselves are "already available" :-) --[1765]-- (pref = [1764], nref = [1766]) ------- End forwarded transaction From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Sun Jul 8 21:12:34 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Wes Carroll SUB: Re: [eichin : Re: Digitized ID pictures] Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA01958; Sun, 8 Jul 90 19:33:41 EDT Received: from BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08749; Sun, 8 Jul 90 19:33:39 EDT Received: by BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21978; Sun, 8 Jul 90 19:33:35 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 90 19:33:35 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9007082333.AA21978@BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU> To: Wes Carroll In-Reply-To: wlcarrol@MIT.EDU Sun, 8 Jul 90 18:38:58 -0400 <9007082238.AA04011@beeblebrox.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: [eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU : Re: Digitized ID pictures] Actually, I've found something better --- Roger A Roach pointed me at people who have the floor plans in CadView format. I have to talk to them about getting the data for Athena use; I'm also giving some thought to writing a simple cad program for Athena... _Mark_ From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Thu Aug 2 16:19:55 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach SUB: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA00941; Thu, 2 Aug 90 16:19:44 EDT Received: from PORTNOY.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18512; Thu, 2 Aug 90 16:19:42 EDT Received: by PORTNOY.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23946; Thu, 2 Aug 90 16:19:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 16:19:39 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008022019.AA23946@PORTNOY.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach Subject: Institute Maps I just talked to Kara Rogers of the OFMS. She told me that CADView can produce "DXF" files, which are an AutoCAD format, which would probably be the most useful if we were writing programs to view it. She also said that the Director (Kreon Cyros) was interested, and they would have a meeting when he gets back from vacation (around August 15) to confirm that we can make the data available through Athena, though she wasn't aware of any reason I wouldn't be able to use them. She also suggested that I try working with a few of the DXF files to make sure that that's all I need, since getting access to either CADView code or the code they used when producing the maps would be an "additional hurdle." She suggest that since I was already in touch with you that I could ask you to generate a few files for me (they apparently don't have much hardware themselves and are really busy.) If you have the time, could you perhaps perform the conversion on a couple of pieces so that I could get started examining the format? If there's anything I can do to make it easier, let me know, I can set up space for you to upload them to or something. Thanks. Mark Eichin ps. Talks between Athena and AutoDesk have apparently terminated, and AutoDesk is not interested in doing anything with Athena, so I suspect an AutoCAD-compatible viewer would itself be a useful tool. From rar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Fri Aug 3 22:12:28 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Roger A. Roach ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA04509; Fri, 3 Aug 90 09:39:17 EDT Received: from RAR.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29298; Fri, 3 Aug 90 09:39:10 EDT Received: by RAR.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06823; Fri, 3 Aug 90 09:40:05 -0400 Message-Id: <9008031340.AA06823@RAR.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Subject: Re: Institute Maps In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 02 Aug 90 16:19:39 -0400. <9008022019.AA23946@PORTNOY.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 90 09:40:01 EDT From: Roger A. Roach You are in luck! I just got the new version of software which supports DXF format. I've installed it and created a file of one of the drawings. I put it in my locker /afs/athena/user/r/rar as e40-3.dxf. See what you can do with it. Good Luck. From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 04:08:30 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach SUB: Re: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA15072; Mon, 6 Aug 90 04:08:11 EDT Received: from BINKLEY.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15665; Mon, 6 Aug 90 04:08:08 EDT Received: by BINKLEY.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26935; Mon, 6 Aug 90 04:08:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 04:08:02 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008060808.AA26935@BINKLEY.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach In-Reply-To: Fri, 03 Aug 90 09:40:01 EDT <9008031340.AA06823@RAR.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: Institute Maps You are in luck! I just got the new version of software which supports DXF format. I've installed it and created a file of one of the drawings. I put it in my locker /afs/athena/user/r/rar as e40-3.dxf. See what you can do with it. Good Luck. Here's something to play with; it took very little time to create... if you have ideas for further features, let me know and I'll see what it takes to implement them. _Mark_ ================ /mit/eichin/DEMO/autoview.README ================ AUTOVIEW - viewer for AutoCAD(TM?) files. Mark Eichin, 3 August 1990. Background: I took a sample ".DXF" file and looked at it; much of the information was in an obvious form. I then took the InterViews "persistent graphics" demo and rewrote its GraphicInitialize procedure to read a ".dxf" file from standard input. This took under an hour, including debugging. I've since added text as well. Linestyles are currently ignored. To use (either RT or VAX): % attach eichin rar % /mit/eichin/DEMO/autoview -geometry 800x600 < /mit/rar/e40-3.dxf Notes: The map is about 2500x1000 at normal startup, which is why you want to specify the geometry above. In the lower right corner you'll see a "panner" - an alternate interface to scrollbars, better suited to 2d work. The quad of arrows move in the given direction. The big arrows move in and out. The box below them is the panner itself - the grey represents the whole map, and the white box represents the window. You can pick up and drag the box to move the window. Click in the grey area and the box (and viewport) will move about 1/2 a screenful towards the click point. Since autoview uses persistent objects, it creates /tmp/autoview.map and /tmp/autoview.sto. These can be deleted (I just haven't had the chance to figure out how to make it avoid creating them in the first place.) You can click and drag "objects" (walls, pieces of text...) In the current interface, walls can only be moved on the screen. Getting Physical Plant to move them in reality is Not Yet Implemented. From rar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 11:31:11 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Roger A. Roach ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA15602; Mon, 6 Aug 90 08:38:58 EDT Received: from RAR.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16646; Mon, 6 Aug 90 08:38:50 EDT Received: by RAR.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21333; Mon, 6 Aug 90 08:39:48 -0400 Message-Id: <9008061239.AA21333@RAR.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Subject: Re: Institute Maps In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 06 Aug 90 04:08:02 -0400. <9008060808.AA26935@BINKLEY.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 90 08:39:45 EDT From: Roger A. Roach I like it. My only comments are in areas I don't think you can do much. 1. When you scale down the drawing (to get the whole building shown), you lose the room numbers. I assume that is because there are not any fonts small enough on Athena. It is too bad you can preserve the numbers some how. On the PS/2 they are always visible although sometimes they occupy the whole room and then some. 2. The Cadview program has a lot of features that you can't do without the whole datafile. For example, I can identify rooms by their owners (departments), I can point to a room (or rooms) and ask for areas. I can use a "tape measure" to measure the distances between any two points. I can change the titles in the rooms (even inserting peoples names by hand if I wish). My only other suggestion is a print option iff we can get the entire floor on a sheet of paper with the room numbers readable. Good work! Roger From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 12:16:23 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach SUB: Re: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA16876; Mon, 6 Aug 90 11:42:53 EDT Received: from E40-008-8.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20380; Mon, 6 Aug 90 11:42:50 EDT Received: by E40-008-8.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09066; Mon, 6 Aug 90 11:42:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 11:42:48 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008061542.AA09066@E40-008-8.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach In-Reply-To: Roger A. Roach Mon, 06 Aug 90 08:39:45 EDT <9008061239.AA21333@RAR.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: Institute Maps Room numbers: Actually, I am currently ignoring the text size, which should probably be larger than it is now; there may also be a way to punt the scaling, so that the text stays the same size regardless of scale (I'll have to check the InterViews docs more closely.) Changing the room titles might actually work, if you select them, though I may have to change the type of object they are. The InterViews library (or at least the idraw program itself) already contains code for converting graphical objects to PostScript. That would make output easy to print or include in documents. I'll have to think about room areas - if they are calculated by looking directly at the lines, it could be tricky; if the data is in another file, that's not so bad. One thing I was thinking about is a "room number search" where it pops up a prompt and then zooms in on that room. I'll just implement it and see what happens. I might be able to do the measurement part, I don't know how the scaling is done right now. _Mark_ From rar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 19:09:15 1990 SUM: Roger A. Roach ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: Institute Maps Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA20096; Mon, 6 Aug 90 17:24:24 EDT Received: from RAR.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28370; Mon, 6 Aug 90 17:24:18 EDT Received: by RAR.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21619; Mon, 6 Aug 90 17:25:16 -0400 Message-Id: <9008062125.AA21619@RAR.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Subject: Re: Institute Maps In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 06 Aug 90 11:42:48 -0400. <9008061542.AA09066@E40-008-8.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 90 17:25:12 EDT From: Roger A. Roach I've converted some more floor plans if you need some more to play with. I've put them in a subdirectory in /mit/rar called "bldgs". It takes about 20-25 minutes to load one file and write the DXF format on a 286 system. I have a 386 on order, but it is not here yet. Thus it is a slow process although I really like being able to call them up from my workstation instead of going to our terminal room where the PS/2 is. From jon@MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 20:49:05 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: jon@MIT.EDU (Jon A. Rochlis)->eichin@MIT.EDU SUB: phys plant cad stuff Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA21425; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:48:38 EDT Received: from DELWIN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09493; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:48:44 EDT From: jon@MIT.EDU (Jon A. Rochlis) Received: by DELWIN.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29497; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:48:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:48:28 -0400 Message-Id: <9008070048.AA29497@DELWIN.MIT.EDU> To: eichin@MIT.EDU Subject: phys plant cad stuff Where does it live? How do I run the viewer? -- Jon From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 6 21:00:06 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Jon A. Rochlis SUB: Re: phys plant cad stuff Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA21475; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:54:17 EDT Received: from BINKLEY.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02125; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:54:14 EDT Received: by BINKLEY.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01156; Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:54:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:54:09 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008070054.AA01156@BINKLEY.MIT.EDU> To: Jon A. Rochlis In-Reply-To: jon@MIT.EDU (Jon A. Rochlis) Mon, 6 Aug 90 20:48:28 -0400 <9008070048.AA29497@DELWIN.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: phys plant cad stuff /mit/eichin/DEMO/autoview (look at autoview.README for notes...) /mit/rar/bldgs/*.dxf are lots of maps... _Mark_ From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Wed Aug 8 06:26:49 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach ,Jon A. Rochlis SUB: enhancements to autoview Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA29851; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:04:30 EDT Received: from BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28501; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:04:28 EDT Received: by BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10332; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:04:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:04:21 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008081004.AA10332@BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach Cc: Jon A. Rochlis Subject: enhancements to autoview Same place as before... _Mark_ changes to autoview.README: AUTOVIEW - viewer for AutoCAD(TM?) files. Mark Eichin, 8 August 1990. Additions: Moving of walls is now off by default; use the "-edit" option on the command line to restore it. MEASUREMENT is now available. Press and drag the left button to measure between two points. Press and drag the center button to measure the area of a rectangle (between the corners.) {under construction: Press right button repeatedly to build up a multisegment line, and press left button when done to print total path length. } (All lengths are currently printed to standard output, ie. the terminal from which autoview was started.) From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Wed Aug 8 15:26:27 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Roger A Roach ,Jon A. Rochlis SUB: Re: enhancements to autoview Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA29955; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:29:11 EDT Received: from BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28605; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:29:09 EDT Received: by BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10596; Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:29:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:29:04 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008081029.AA10596@BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU> To: Roger A Roach Cc: Jon A. Rochlis In-Reply-To: Mark W. Eichin Wed, 8 Aug 90 06:04:21 -0400 <9008081004.AA10332@BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: enhancements to autoview Path length is now working - click right to begin, move and click right for each segment, click right on the final point, *then* click left to print the length and clean up. _Mark_ From kevles@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Tue Aug 7 16:55:08 1990 SUM: kevles->eichin SUB: MIT CAD viewer Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA25490; Tue, 7 Aug 90 14:14:36 EDT Received: from CALIBAN.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15244; Tue, 7 Aug 90 14:14:33 EDT From: kevles@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Received: by CALIBAN.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22108; Tue, 7 Aug 90 14:14:31 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 14:14:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9008071814.AA22108@CALIBAN.MIT.EDU> To: eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Subject: MIT CAD viewer Can I see it Mark? Can I? Can I? --Beth From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Wed Aug 8 17:27:50 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Chris `rondo' VanHaren SUB: xcluster Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA04889; Wed, 8 Aug 90 17:06:59 EDT Received: from E40-008-8.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11691; Wed, 8 Aug 90 17:06:57 EDT Received: by E40-008-8.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18636; Wed, 8 Aug 90 17:06:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 17:06:53 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008082106.AA18636@E40-008-8.MIT.EDU> To: Chris `rondo' VanHaren Subject: xcluster Are you working on xcluster? I've been doing some stuff for SIPB with the OFMS CadView map files, and have some *real* maps of MIT. Maybe I could hack the SNMP side of xcluster into my InterViews based viewing package... _Mark_ From vanharen@mit.edu Wed Aug 8 18:24:37 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Chris VanHaren ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: xcluster Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA05607; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:21:50 EDT Received: from FRIES.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13446; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:21:48 EDT Received: by fries.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13732; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:21:33 -0400 Message-Id: <9008082221.AA13732@fries.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin From: Chris VanHaren Subject: Re: xcluster Date: Wed, 08 Aug 90 18:21:29 EDT Sender: vanharen@ATHENA.MIT.EDU >> Are you working on xcluster? I've been doing some stuff for SIPB with >> the OFMS CadView map files, and have some *real* maps of MIT. Maybe I >> could hack the SNMP side of xcluster into my InterViews based viewing >> package... Yes, I was one of the people that did a lot of the work on it. The other person was John Welch. He did a lot of the initial work on it, including drawing the map (in idraw, by hand!) coincidentally enough. We thought about ripping out part of idraw to use to display the map, and that would be cool because we could zoom, pan, etc., but decided against it because of the complexity of the project -- neither of us knows the idraw code and weren't about to try to tackle it (to say nothing of learning C++) in the few weeks worth of time that we were given to complete the project. Another reason we decided not to use a toolkit for xcluster was that we were concerned about executable size and speed. Since the original idea was to have it run on the print servers in each of the clusters, we didn't want to have to load down them with a big, bulky program. So, we went with straight Xlib. Also, since we stored the map as a bitmap (took a snapshot of the idraw screen, in essence...), the time to re-draw the map is minimal (just an XCopyArea)... Of course, there are lots of features that we had to can because we didn't want to write them in Xlib, but oh well. Now, if InterViews is (in your opinion) low-enough overhead (size, speed) to pay for the functionality that could be gained, then perhaps it would make for a nifty project... Anyway, I'd be interested to see what you've got, and I could certainly point you at our code and since there's not much of it, I'd guess you could probably figure it out quickly and graft it onto your program. I'd be more than happy to help out... The cluster information stuff isn't SNMP, actually... there's a server running on the NOC that gathers the information using SNMP, and xcluster just grabs the info from the server... -C. P.S. Is there some way I can see what you've been working on somewhere? A public executable or anything? From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Wed Aug 8 21:59:51 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->vanharen@mit.edu SUB: Re: xcluster Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA05691; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:30:05 EDT Received: from E40-008-8.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13598; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:30:02 EDT Received: by E40-008-8.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20198; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:29:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:29:59 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008082229.AA20198@E40-008-8.MIT.EDU> To: vanharen@mit.edu In-Reply-To: Chris VanHaren Wed, 08 Aug 90 18:21:29 EDT <9008082221.AA13732@fries.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: xcluster attach eichin and look in /mit/eichin/DEMOS. "autoview" is the program; read "autoview.README" first, it tells you where to get the maps. We don't yet have permission to make the maps available to all of MIT yet, but that should happen in about two weeks (the Director of the OFMS is on vacation, though he is interested in the project.) I wrote the first version in about an hour, starting from the "graphics" demo (much simpler than idraw.) I added the rubberbanding in less than 2 hours of real work. InterViews is cheaper than Xt, in my experience, though I don't have hard data to back this up. Certainly there is more functionality :-) Let me know where your sources are, and I'll see about adding things in to mine... _Mark_ From vanharen@mit.edu Wed Aug 8 21:59:53 1990 SUM: Chris VanHaren ->Mark W. Eichin SUB: Re: xcluster Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA05860; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:48:44 EDT Received: from FRIES.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13981; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:48:41 EDT Received: by fries.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13813; Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:48:39 -0400 Message-Id: <9008082248.AA13813@fries.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin From: Chris VanHaren Subject: Re: xcluster Date: Wed, 08 Aug 90 18:48:35 EDT Sender: vanharen@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Wow! Neat-o, I must say! Now, if we could get the whole campus map into one file... :-) Anyway, the sources for xcluster -- oh shit. We'll have to get John Welch to un-protect them. John moved them into a new locker "xmit", which he didn't give me permission to read. I'll have to bug him about that, because there are some changes to be made to it before it goes to the field... oh well... I'll send you mail as soon as I can have him unprotect the stuff... sorry about that. Kinda bugs me too that I can't read the sources... Oh wait, never mind... attach source, look in /source/athena/usr.athena/xmit... That stuff should be pretty recent. Like I said, there's not much there, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out, I hope... Let me know if you have any questions about the code, though. -C. From sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Thu Aug 30 04:27:47 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Gillian Paige Bidgood ->eichin,sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU SUB: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA27781; Wed, 29 Aug 90 16:11:08 EDT Received: from FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15014; Wed, 29 Aug 90 16:11:05 EDT Received: by FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU (5.54/DA1.0.2) id AA02458; Wed, 29 Aug 90 16:11:01 EDT From: Gillian Paige Bidgood Message-Id: <9008292011.AA02458@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> To: eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Cc: sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Subject: On-line Maps of campus Date: Wed, 29 Aug 90 16:11:00 EDT Mark, My boss is interested in getting on-line maps of campus on fenchurch. Marc Horowitz said that you already have such a thing done. Is this true? If it is, would it be possible for EECS ECF to use them? We are most interested in: 1) the 3rd and 4th floors of bldg 38, 2) the rest of bldg 38, and 3) the rest of MIT campus. One of the things we would like to be able to do with them, especially the ones of building 38 is to trace out all the cabling we have done and keep track of it on line. Is this a possible thing to do? Please let me know, as soon as possible for you. Thanks, Jill sparrow@fenchurch From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Thu Aug 30 04:48:57 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Gillian P Bidgood SUB: Re: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA01287; Thu, 30 Aug 90 04:42:27 EDT Received: from E40-008-6.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24584; Thu, 30 Aug 90 04:42:25 EDT Received: by E40-008-6.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16294; Thu, 30 Aug 90 04:42:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 04:42:23 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008300842.AA16294@E40-008-6.MIT.EDU> To: Gillian P Bidgood In-Reply-To: Gillian Paige Bidgood Wed, 29 Aug 90 16:11:00 EDT <9008292011.AA02458@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: On-line Maps of campus If your boss is MIT Staff, he should talk to the Office of Facilities Management Systems (Kreon Cyros is the Director.) If you have PC's or PS/2's you can get software and databases from them with walls, institute wiring, plumbing, and other info for all of campus (you can ask for just the sections you need.) I haven't heard back from them as to whether or not I can release the stuff I've done to the MIT community. If I can get approval to do that, and get the rest of the data from them, I'd be quite willing to help set up software on Athena for you to add your cabling data. However, I need their permission to release the datasets that they have. _Mark_ From sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Thu Aug 30 13:33:39 1990 Keyword: answered SUM: Gillian Paige Bidgood ->Mark W. Eichin ,sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU SUB: Re: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA04009; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:31:50 EDT Received: from FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02201; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:31:47 EDT Received: by FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU (5.54/DA1.0.2) id AA06239; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:31:38 EDT From: Gillian Paige Bidgood Message-Id: <9008301731.AA06239@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Cc: sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: On-line Maps of campus In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Aug 90 04:42:23 -0400. <9008300842.AA16294@E40-008-6.MIT.EDU> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:31:36 EDT Thanks a lot. What do you have on-line? If I'm allowed to ask. Is it all of campus, or just parts so far? Whatever you can tell me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Jill From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Thu Aug 30 13:52:24 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->Gillian P Bidgood SUB: Re: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA04167; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:51:21 EDT Received: from E40-008-6.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02684; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:51:18 EDT Received: by E40-008-6.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21978; Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:51:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:51:15 -0400 From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9008301751.AA21978@E40-008-6.MIT.EDU> To: Gillian P Bidgood In-Reply-To: Gillian Paige Bidgood Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:31:36 EDT <9008301731.AA06239@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: On-line Maps of campus At the moment, bldg 11, floors 0-4 bldg 10, floor 2 bldg e19, 0-7 bldg e18, 0 bldg e40, 0+3 bldg w20, 0-6 bldg w91, 1-2 These are basically whatever Roger Roach was interested in and converted for himself (I'm leveraging my efforts to get approval off of his interest.) I can demo the viewer and programs, if there's interest, though it would really have to be some evening, since I work during the day. The viewer I wrote has zoom, pan, and measure line, path, and area, but more features could be added if anyone was interested in them. _Mark_ From sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Mon Sep 3 19:10:22 1990 SUM: Gillian Paige Bidgood ->Mark W. Eichin ,sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU SUB: Re: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA18059; Sun, 2 Sep 90 22:54:50 EDT Received: from FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16016; Sun, 2 Sep 90 22:54:48 EDT Received: by FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU (5.54/DA1.0.2) id AA20202; Sun, 2 Sep 90 22:54:10 EDT From: Gillian Paige Bidgood Message-Id: <9009030254.AA20202@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> To: Mark W. Eichin Cc: sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: On-line Maps of campus In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:51:15 -0400. <9008301751.AA21978@E40-008-6.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 02 Sep 90 22:54:08 EDT OK, then you don't have maps of 38 already done? I would really be interested in seeing your program if you have the time to show it to me. My classes start this week, so I will probably only be on campus in the evenings. When would be good for you? Also, how did you put the maps on line? thanks, Jill From eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Sep 3 22:14:10 1990 SUM: Mark W. Eichin ->sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU SUB: Re: On-line Maps of campus Received: by E40-PO.MIT.EDU (5.45/4.7) id AA20355; Mon, 3 Sep 90 22:13:50 EDT Received: from HODGE.MIT.EDU by ATHENA.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27121; Mon, 3 Sep 90 22:13:47 EDT Received: by HODGE (5.57/4.7) id AA09135; Mon, 3 Sep 90 22:13:42 EDT Date: Mon, 3 Sep 90 22:13:42 EDT From: Mark W. Eichin Message-Id: <9009040213.AA09135@HODGE> To: sparrow@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Gillian Paige Bidgood Sun, 02 Sep 90 22:54:08 EDT <9009030254.AA20202@FENCHURCH.MIT.EDU> Subject: Re: On-line Maps of campus I work during the day, so I'm only around evenings. I'm likely to be around evenings, though, so just stop by SIPB or call. As I said, Roger Roach converted the maps (he has a PC on which he runs the standard release of the mapping software) and uploaded the ones he was interested in. If I get approval to redistribute, I'll get all of them uploaded (and probably set up code to incorporate other Athena data into the viewer program.) _Mark_