Message-Id: <9306041815.AA01729@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 14:15:26 -0400
From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem)
To: vlevin@acs.ucalgary.ca, qing@iras.ucalgary.ca, mikew@cs.washington.edu,
        adrian@u.washington.edu, jonathan@cats.ucsc.edu, dfoster@maths.tcd.ie,
        randyk@wv.mentorg.com, paul.neureiter@his.com, john.tromp@cwi.nl,
        junger@rsg1.er.usgs.gov, crowner@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu,
        jmb@ideas.com, creare!spock.creare.com!inb@dartmouth.edu,
        carlos_costa@mindlink.bc.ca, ioffe@black.bgu.ac.il,
        yang@titan.ucs.umass.edu, andrew.robinson@anu.edu.au,
        wsharpe@delphi.com, bate@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca,
        wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz, lewis@venus.resntl.bhp.com.au,
        jones@reed.edu, garyb@ultima.enet.dec.com,
        derek@AU-BON-PAIN.LCS.MIT.EDU, chapmand@chdasic.sps.mot.com,
        li@draco.bison.mb.ca, blakeno@ivy.isc.com, kkkken@Athena.MIT.EDU
Subject: mikew.1 commented game.
Cc: smg6@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu
Reply-To: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem)


Hi, all --

Sorry to not have gottten much out to you recently.  Real life
has intruded on things much more interesting (like Go 8^), so my
output has been rather slack of late.

I have mgt and can now read and comment on the games you have
sent me (I'm still working on the "variation" commands -- any
suggestions?).  The first game to be commented is appended to
this message, so this is the time for discussion, study, and
questions if you wish.

Please send comments and questions separately from other stuff so
I can mail the pertinent information out to the mailing list with
a minimum of fuss.  If you could send me a separate message for
other matters, I'd really appreciate it.

If you could type "Discussion mikew.1 game" in the subject line
of the header of your message, that would also help.

Well, well.  The interest in team Go has gradually swelled to
include the majority of you, so I guess all we have to do is
decide a time for the match on IGS (all but three of you prefer
IGS).  I'd suggest the weekend after next.  Any ideas? Teams of
from four to six people have been suggested -- any problem with
this?

Also, how many of you who prefer IGS would be willing to play an
Email game as well?  It would be a shame to leave some people
out.

Some interesting questions have been raised about Go etiquette in
our games.  We should also discuss this (subject line = "Eti-
quette").  Let me give my views on this.

The Go dojo is supposed to be a place of learning (obviously). 
Most of you have IGS and local Go clubs for beating people up on
the board, and I don't think this is the place for that.  People
should conduct themselves in Email games as though their opponent
were sitting across a board from them.  This means don't look up
josekis in books until after it no longer matters in the game. 
Try not to keep your opponent waiting for your response any
longer than necessary.

Further discussion is welcome.  Gotta go -- Freenet's going to
cut me off.

Bye,
Max.

(
;
GaMe[1]
VieW[]
SiZe[19]
PlayerBlack[mikew]
BlackRank[5k*]
PlayerWhite[anonymous]
WhiteRank[3k ]
GameName[\(IGS\) anonymous\(W\) vs mikew]
EVent[A game played on the Internet Go Server]
DaTe[1993-05-28]
PlaCe[IGS:  128.32.201.46 6969]
REsult[B+Resign]
GameComment[\( Copyright 1993 Tim L. Casey
Permission to reproduce this game is given, provided proper credit is given.
No warrantee, implied or explicit, is understood.
Use of this game is an understanding of the Copyright.]
USer[Brought to you by the IGS program]
KoMi[9.5]
White[pd]
;
Black[pd]
;
White[dp]
;
Black[pq]
;
White[dd]
;
Black[fq]
;
White[hq]
Comment[MW: Wasn't sure what to do here.  Considered F5, but didn't want to float eyeless in center.

MG: The pincer at h3 is usually only effective when White has a stone or thickness around d10.  You should be happy to jump into the 3-3 point.  After b c3, if w d3, then black gets more territory than white and white's thickness isn't very impressive \(a two-space high pincer by w is roughly equal in division of territory.  If after b c3, w c4, then b d3 to connect and white has little to show in exchange for giving up a large corner; after the corner exchange, b will have to play something like c10 to nullify w thickness, but b is so far ahead. . . .]
;
Comment[MG: The only honest move.]
Black[cq]
;
White[cp]
;
Black[dq]
;
White[ep]
;
Black[fr]
;
White[go]
;
Black[cj]
Comment[MW: Purpose of this move was to devalue W's thickness.

MG:  Also the only move, but b should be overjoyed to play in the middle of what is almost a w moyo.]
;
White[po]
Comment[MW: Was completely baffled here.  Since there were no prospects for attack or territory on the bottom, I decided to use the pincer and go for a moyo on the upper right.

MG: A good idea, but it's a little bad to tenuki here unless you know the takamoku josekis.  Also, b later has the sequence b g4, w h4, bh5; if b has a strong position in the lower right, this couldbe very troublesome for w. \(You should expect w to live after this cut, and use the aji to annoy the w stones in the lower left; again, this is for the last part of the fuseki, not now.\)]
;
Black[pl]
;
Comment[r3 is not joseki. w should play something like o6 or n4 \(which would probably give b a strong position for the thrust at g4 later, so maybe o6 would be better here.]
White[qq]
;
Black[qr]
;
White[qp]
;
Black[mq]
Comment[MW: I thought O3 was more correct than N3, but did this anyway.  The resulting defective
shape seemed to cost me a lot later... :-\( 

MG:  n3 really is bad. o3 is far better, and I rather like the solid p2.]
;
White[rr]
;
Comment[MG: Bad shape, unless you're going to play ko after w r1 \(and there's no reason to\). Better would be q2 or p4 \(if w q2, b p2 \[atari\]and w ends is gote \[b also has reasonable shape here\]\).  A possiblitiy would be to tenuki here and play k3, threatening to connect or cut \(if w q2 \[atari\], then b p2\[atari\], w r1 \[takes\], b tenukis again, w p3 \[atari\], etc. Notice that, in this sequence, w is capturing one stone every two moves and b is taking big points elsewhere on the board.\)]
Black[or]
;
White[qs]
;
Comment[MG: Notice the empty triangle at p3.]
Black[pr]
;
Comment[MG: Nearly the optimal move for w]
White[kq]
;
Black[no]
Comment[MW: Flee into the center!!!  I hated to do this...

MG: You're too scrunched up here.Try something like l4; if w k3, then you can probably get away with something like n6; even an ikken tobi at n5 would be better.]
;
White[pm]
;
Comment[MG: Ikken tobi at o7 would be better, or maybe l5.]
Black[om]
;
White[ql]
;
Comment[MG: I would have atari'd at q6, giving w r7, b p6, w r6, b sente and b's group is safe enough to start the g6 sequence or to tenuki and play c14, which is looking pretty big about now.]
Black[qm]
;
White[pn]
;
Black[qk]
;
White[rl]
;
Black[rk]
;
White[pk]
;
Black[ol]
;
White[rm]
;
Black[pj]
Comment[MW: I was happy with the sequence to here.  The bottom group seemed safer, and there were good territorial prospects on the upper right side.  Just the small matter of the aji of the Q9 stone...

MG: Locally, it seems to have turned out ok for b, but a w move near l5 or so makes w's cut of the two knight's moves a bit worrisome, and the oba of k16 is a ladder block....]
;
White[nc]
Comment[MW: Hmm... What to do now?  Maybe just Q14, but I decided to go for the maximal territory
grab instead.  Obviously kyu-thinking...]
;
Comment[MG: Good move! You're using the thickness you've built up in the right side quite well.]
Black[nd]
;
White[md]
;
Comment[MG: Arrgh!  The simple tsukenobi joseki is _very_ good for you here -- after the t.n.j., you threaten to take the entire side \(30 points?\).  The josekis coming from the choice of p17 are not good when you have this sort of heavy thickness up the side.  Locally, they're OK, but you give up too much potential here.]
Black[oc]
;
White[ne]
;
Black[od]
;
White[le]
;
Black[pf]
;
White[ok]
Comment[MW: The "dead" stone springs back to life!  Attack, attack!]
;
Black[oj]
;
White[nk]
;
Comment[MG:  This is probably going to give you bad shape.  Try l5 instead, then decide whether n8 or something realted to g4 would be better.  The value of the three b stones lies in their cutting w's groups apart, but because of the cut at r10, they don't really have much value.  \(If w cuts at r10, it might be best to just atari at r11, etc. and take sente.]
Black[ml]
;
White[mj]
;
Black[qi]
Comment[MW: Well, I hated to come back and do this, but it seemed like my only hope was to keep 
white floating in the center.]
;
White[nl]
Comment[MW Hey, everybody!  Watch me make a dumpling! :-\(]
;
Black[nm]
;
White[mm]
;
Black[mn]
;
White[lm]
;
Black[ll]
;
White[nn]
;
Black[on]
;
White[oo]
;
Black[nn]
;
White[ln]
;
Black[lo]
;
White[np]
;
Black[mo]
;
White[ko]
;
Black[mp]
Comment[MW: Another humiliating move...]
;
White[lp]
;
Black[lq]
;
White[kp]
;
Black[op]
Comment[MW: There, I *might* be alive now...]
;
White[jj]
Comment[MW: What a mess!  Putting the two center stones in motion seemed like a terrible idea,
but I thought if I didn't do it now, white would attack the left side and make a huge center.

MG: Bad shape move for w -- consider b l8, w k7, b m10.  Still, w is so strong in this area, that it may not matter.]
;
Black[kl]
;
White[jm]
;
Black[jl]
;
White[il]
;
Black[im]
;
White[jn]
;
Black[ik]
;
White[hl]
;
Black[jk]
;
White[ii]
;
Black[kj]
;
White[ki]
;
Black[hk]
;
White[gl]
;
Black[lj]
;
White[mi]
Comment[MW: I though my only hope now was to split at M11, and attack one of the two white groups.
But I convinced myself to be patient.  Need to prepare, first...]
;
Black[gk]
;
Comment[MG: You were luck.  If w had played something like o12 and let youhane at f8, he could have simply played g7 or h6 and concentrated on making the w moyo at the top into territory.]
White[fl]
;
Black[fk]
;
Comment[MG: This is bad.  It's going to force b into the w moyo to make eyes.  Something like d13 would be so nice for w....]
White[dl]
;
Black[dk]
;
White[cl]
Comment[MW: I think this C8 by white was a big mistake.  Here's my big chance...

MG: Yep, w c8 is only points -- big _endgame_ stuff.  There are still oba to be played.]
;
Comment[MG: Oh, yes.  Punish, punish.]
Black[df]
;
White[fe]
;
Black[fc]
Comment[MW: I still have my eye on M11.  My hope here is either to invade the upper side, or
get outside thickness while white is killing me...  F17 is kind of a probe.

MG: Good move! You're not going to get big points from the center group, but it'll survive if you're careful; and you should be able to live on the upper side.]
;
White[hd]
;
Comment[MG:  Aji keshi.  Bad move.  Don't play this sort of thing until you need it to live at the top.  By this peep, you give away the n17 atari unconditionally.  You probably lost ten or twelve points here.]
Black[lc]
;
White[mc]
;
Comment[MG: Start on the other side with e16.]
Black[hc]
;
White[ic]
;
Black[gd]
;
White[hb]
Comment[MW: White falls into my trap...]
;
Black[he]
;
White[gc]
;
Comment[MG: Uh-uh.  Ask yourself what this move accomplishes.  If w connects, as you suugest he should \(judging by the atari :-\), you're still left with three cutting points.  Simply connect at f16. White has to play e15, and then you connect at g15 \(strategic planning, the tactics may just kill a bigger b group\).]
Black[id]
;
White[hc]
;
Black[ge]
;
White[fd]
;
Black[je]
;
White[jd]
;
Black[ie]
;
Comment[MG:  White's going for territory and letting the pressure off your group. White f14 or something in this area would be more to the point.]
White[kd]
;
Black[ff]
;
White[ec]
;
Black[ee]
;
White[fb]
Comment[MW: My wildest dreams come true!

MG:  Why didn't w just connect at e16?]
;
Comment[MG:  Can't see how w can fail to be hurt pretty badly here.]
Black[li]
;
White[mg]
;
Black[lh]
;
White[jg]
;
Black[kf]
;
White[kg]
;
Black[lg]
;
White[lf]
;
Black[hg]
Comment[MW: White seemed to get demoralized at this point, and began floundering...

MG: He should be demoralized -- you've played it out perfectly.  Nice planning in building up your thickness, too.]
;
White[di]
;
Black[ci]
;
Comment[MG:  <chuckle>  I'm _so_ unkind.]
White[ek]
;
Black[ej]
;
White[dj]
;
Black[el]
;
White[ck]
;
Black[ek]
;
White[dh]
;
Black[ch]
;
White[eg]
;
Black[dg]
;
White[ef]
;
Black[fg]
;
White[em]
;
Black[mh]
;
White[bq]
;
Black[br]
;
White[eq]
;
Black[er]
;
White[cr]
)