Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981007215051.00704714@mail.swbell.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:50:51 -0500
To: minstrel@pbm.com
From: Rex Deaver <rdeaver@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: minstrel: Bardic, Period, and assorted rantings...
In-Reply-To: <199810071500.LAA08112@xkey.com>
References: <3.0.3.32.19981006201504.00b1b814@mail.swbell.net>
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At 11:00 AM 10/7/98 -0400, Greg Lindahl wrote:

>[ I have no problem with you re-creating
>whatever ideal you like, but you seem to be saying I should strive to
>your ideal... ]

No, you can be a master musician if you want.  Or you can be a master
performer, poet, storyteller, instrumentalist, whatever.  I know many whom
are in these categories, and admire them greatly.  But even they will state
unequivocally that they are *not* bards/minstrels.

>> But equally inarguable is that one who demonstrated mastery in *all* the se
>> areas would be held in the highest esteem, and would personify the
>> Ideal...the "full-grown" m/b/s/s
>
>Prove it, historically.

A good game, and I will indeed play.  

But first you must define what you will accept as proof;  I'll not waste my
time digging up citations only to have you spurn the sources.

>Of course,
>professional musicians in the Elizabethan era were mostly lower-middle
>class, which doesn't fit the Victorian ideal.

The trouveres were quite often commoners, and the jongleurs most definitely
were...yet they fall quite handily into my definition.  

And classic minstrelsy was all but extinct by the Elizabethan era.
Musicians there were, balladeers, players, etc.  But I know of *no*
definition of minstrel that places them that late.

Mathurin
Forgotten Sea, Calontir

--
"Alas! all music jars when the soul's out of tune."
	 -- Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616)


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