Received: from ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU by po6.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29673; Fri, 21 Jan 94 11:35:15 EST Received: from BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06607; Fri, 21 Jan 94 11:34:55 EST Received: by bloom-beacon.mit.edu (5.61/25-eef) id AA00973; Fri, 21 Jan 94 11:29:00 EST Received: from marcie.wellesley.edu by bloom-beacon.mit.edu with SMTP (5.61/25-eef) id AA00952; Fri, 21 Jan 94 11:28:54 EST Received: from LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU by LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #5872) id <01H7XY79LFN48ZENCL@LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU>; Fri, 21 Jan 1994 11:32:20 EST Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 11:32:20 -0500 (EST) From: Caleb Hanson Subject: "Carolingia" To: carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu Message-Id: <01H7XY79LPAA8ZENCL@LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU> X-Envelope-To: carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu X-Vms-To: C-NET X-Vms-Cc: CHANSON Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I will not get involved in the principality discussion. I will not get involved in the principality discussion. I will not get involved in the principality discussion. But I can snipe around the edges. Imprimis, the adjective "Carolingian" (when applied to the First Middle Ages) is used to identify the dynasty of Charles Martel, Pepin the Short, Charles the Great, Louis the Pouis (misspelling unintentional but left in 'cause it looks cute), and their descendants; it also is used to describe the culture, Renaissance, handwriting, etc., of their times. But to the best of my know- ledge "Carolingia" was not, and has never been, used as a place-name to identify their realm - use "Kingdom of the Franks" or "Holy Roman Empire". Secundus, "Carolingia" as a place-name in the Current Middle Ages was, of course, derived from the Charles River (see also "Duncharloch"). However, the reference to the reign of Charlemagne et al. was *not* missed by the Boston SCAdians of the time, though some postings in the current debate seem to suggest that it was. Having said that, I happen to agree with Iain's point (or at least, my opinion can successfully be read in Iain's question): both "Carolingian" and "Vinland" refer to times and places from the First Middle Ages that are inappropriate to Justin's persona and preferred activities. Why then should "Vinland" as a *Current Middle Ages* place-name be any more inappropriate than "Carolingian"? (The original name proposed for the Boston barony, by the way, was "Barony of Norfolk, Suffolk, and Middlesex". Mark, would it be any more or less appro- priate to call Justin a "Norfolk-Suffolk-and-Middlesexual"? :-) Yours in Real history, and SCA history, but not the current SCA, Kale