From: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Message-Id: <9403181536.AA25643@math.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: A Plot to keep our burough "members"
To: mfy@sli.com (Mike Yoder)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:36:53 -0500 (EST)
Cc: carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (carolingia)
In-Reply-To: <9403172320.AA16027@ravel.sli.com> from "Mike Yoder" at Mar 17, 94 11:20:51 pm
Content-Type: text
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Franz wrote:
  I assume you are using "join" here in the larger sense.
  
Yes, I was.

  Do you really, in all earnestness, believe that this is not already required
  for all practical purposes?  The usual euphemism for the system is "service."

Yes, I do. But I'm afraid I see an important, and moral difference. (I hear
the background music starting which signifies an "olde fharte" story.)

When I joined the SCA, it was very clear to me that people respected and
approved of folks who worked for the betterment of the organization, and the
zeitgeist was that we treated each other with the highest ideals of
courtesy.

I believe that this is still the case.  There are plenty of ways of becoming
an accepted member of the local group, but few faster than being seen as a
contributor to the general group.

I was afraid that I saw, within the seeds of Elayne's suggestion, a future
possibility that disturbed me greatly. Not that she suggested it as a good
idea, but which I projected upon it as a possible outcome.

That is, under such a system, the perception could shift from "service to
the Society" to "serving the older members of the Society".

  Working without a patron in the SCA (oh, all right, in Carolingia) is like
  running up a down escalator with oil spills on it while people shoot salt
  pellets at you, and folk like Cariadoc argue that the speed of the escalator
  should be turned up a few notches.  (I am referring to his position on AoAs.)

Huh?  We have a huge gap between your opinion and mine, then. I think you
may be confusing the implicit sponsorship that goes on in Carolingia, with
perceived value.  I would grant you that someone who is "brought into" the
Society with a character reference from someone who is already here, has a
leg up on acceptance.  This is human nature.

  It isn't only at the Board level that our system has problems, Tibor.
  Just my opinion.

No solution can be created until we understand the problem.  I will admit
that I don't see the problem quite the way you do. Certainly, there are
those folks that have to work harder than others to get recognition. I find
your simile to be highly exagerated.

(More olde fharte music). I had no patron, and if you know me, you know that
I didn't kowtow or serve anybody.  I eventually did become Sebastien's
equiry, but only after I had been in the Society several years. I have
little fear of your using me as an example, if you want to illustrate your
point at my expense. Feel free. (An honest invitation.)

This is a far cry from earning 20 dollars by babysitting, though.
  
	Tibor