From: yarrowp@mscd.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:17:03 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: re: minstrel: Bards -  longish and heading out of SCA purview
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>Some day, I'd love to do an 18th century re-creation event just so that
>all those wonderful early collections of Welsh harp music can be presented
>in their _proper_ setting!

>Tangwystyl

Thank you, Tangwystyl, for a fascinating article!  I'm very curious to know 
whether we're looking at material from the end of the 16th century, the 
18th, or a mixture.  It seems unlikely that Jones would identify something 
as "ancient" if it was written within his own century, assuming 1) 
truthfulness on his part  and 2) that someone didn't deliberately 
perpetrate a hoax on him.  100 years or more, he would probably grace with 
that label.  He did identify the arrangements of the tunes in Bardic Museum 
and Bardic Relics as his own work, which leaves me with some hope that 
Jones, at least, wasn't willingly perpetrating a forgery.

>The Myvyrian Archaeology is considerably more problematic. While the
>collection was one of the earliest printed (and thus widely-disseminated)
>anthologies of medieval Welsh poetry, the editor also included a large
>body of work by the notorious 18th century antiquarian-forger Edward
>Williams (Iolo Morgannwg). This can make it difficult to determine whether
>any particular item in it is genuinely ancient or a contemporary forgery.
>(Mind you, this is "forgery" only in the sense that the material was being
>passed off as medieval -- by rights, Williams ought to be remembered today
>as a talented poet, rather than as the man who single-handedly muddied the
>waters of Welsh literary history.)

Ah, yes.  Jones was well acquainted with Mr. Williams, witness the article 
at
http://www.britannia.com/wales/lit/lit13.html which describes the two men 
as contemporaries and rivals.  Both Jones and Williams were reacting 
against the Methodist ministry's influence in Wales  (note that they were 
living in London at the time).   According to the article above, Jones was 
responsible for reviving the eisteddfod in 1788.  Williams contributed the 
ceremonial aspects to later eisteddfodau.
		
Slight tangent - In the Jones harp pieces (I don't know if it's the 1784 or 
the one quoted above) there is one known as "Cynghansail Cymry" (sp?  I 
don't have Jones with me - the same piece is in Williams, W. S. Gwynn. 
Ceinciau Telyn Cymru: Harp Tunes of Wales. Cwmni Cyhoeddi Gwynn Cyf, 
Penygroes, Gwynedd, 1962 - last piece - for anyone who may have this but 
not have access to Jones.) which displays considerable parallels to the ap 
Huw material.  Coincidental?  Someone's recreation?  Or a survival of the 
earlier tradition?  Jones's comprehension of the tablature in ap Huw seems 
to have been minimal, to judge by his description.  Even the interpretation 
in Bunting seems more accurate IMHO.

Of course, Iolo Morgannwg had "discovered" a manuscript with similar 
tablature.  There will be a paper on this manuscript in the third volume of 
Welsh Music History, due for release in December.  This volume will be 
devoted to papers presented at a symposium on the ap Huw manuscript.  For 
more information:
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/music/WMI/WMH3.html 

If you ever decide to do that 18th century Welsh event, please let me know 
- I'd love to be there.  (Perhaps the Mythopoeic Society would be willing 
to sponsor it during the conference in 2001?  I think that will be in 
Berkeley.  Certainly related to fantasy literature's roots . . .)

Vivien


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