Message-Id: <9401192207.AA18191@us2rmc.bb.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 17:07:18 EST
From: touche!  19-Jan-1994 1511 <groff@epee.enet.dec.com>
To: carolingia@world.std.com
Cc: groff@epee.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: carolingia@world.std.com
Subject: Principality

Some asked for "Pros and Cons", I am definitely in the "Pro" side of the house. 
Below are some reasons why and some ideas to consider.  Before you go on, note:
I assume that the Principality is a Pseudo-Kingdom.  I see no reason for two
layers of Royalty, Laws, and Traditions.  

Also, I speak as one who has travelled throughout this Kingdom, from
Newfoundland to Pittsburgh.  I have travelled and attended events in Caid, West,
and Middle.  Presently, I follow the Crown around at EK King's Champion of
Fence (for 1.5 years, where .5 have passed).  I am the Central Regional Marshal
of Fence and deal with the Northern Region in an unofficial capicity as well.  I
have fought, fenced, arched, cooked, cleaned, et cetera in multiple places in
this Kingdom, swapping stories as I went.  I have lived and was active in 
Northern Outpost (Potsdam NY), Bhakhail (Philadelphia PA), and Carolingia
(Boston MA).  I have lived on the boarder of StoneMarche and was close to many
of its founders.  I don't think I speak from a Carolingian-centric
point-of-view.

Below, when I say "Northern" I mean both North and Central Region.  Remember,
we used to be one region until "realitively" recently.

1) East is too big.  

	Compare our size to other Kingdoms.  If you EXCLUDE the Meritimes, we
are a "reasonable" size.  Travel can be done in one-day from one-side to the
other.  BUT, do not plan to do anything after that travel.  To be able to
travel to an event in-the-same-day, we would need to be 1/2 the size.  Say, 8
hours in breadth. 

	The Meritimes offer a problem.  Newfoundland, PEI and Nova Scotia are
accessable by boat or plane (for most coming from the States).  As such, they
add at least an extra day in travel time.  We should consider these groups like
we consider Drackenwald, or the West/Caid treat Australia, Alaska, and New
Zealand.  They are an "exception".

2) The East has too many people.

	With mailing to more-than-3000 for Pikestaff we have to wonder what is
a managable number.  Our current management system strains with this number. 
The crown simply cannot know the activities of all the people who "should" be
recognized.  (NOTE: 3000 is the number RECEIVING Pikestaff.  There are many
more who are "Family", "Associate" or non-paying members. Say 6000 as a good
operating number.)

	The Crown's time on the phone and by letter is stretched to its limit. 
Costs for becoming the Crown are pricing many of the possible entrants out of
the running.  It is not uncommon for the Crown to be faced with month and
months of debt following their divesture.

	Kingdom Events are pulling 200-500 people per event.  I remember when
200 was the "high" for a Crown or Coronation.  "Not Necessarily 12th Night", a
combined East/Atlantia event (Bhakail) drew, at-most, 250 people.  Smaller
events are more-fun, allow better focus, and are easier to hold.

	Polling Lists are either:
		too long
		have to have people cut off the list to make them manageable
			(this is what usually happens!)

	People are getting dropped off of pollings because they are not
politically connected into households which do letter writing campeigns.  Do we
need to be part of a household to be on a polling list?  Recent experience says
"yes".  {Yes, I say this with bitterness.  Realize, if it wasn't for my close
connections with households at the time of my AgC, I would probably not have
been on the Poll.  I would not expect, today, that I would be put on a poll
again.} 

3) The East has (at least) two different games being played at their events.

	From a recent (northern) Monarch, I validated something I suspected
was true.  The Southern groups play a different game than the Northern (Central
& Northern) groups.  This is especially true on their view of the Monarch,
chivalry, and (from my expert opinion) fencing.  Carolingian's moving to such
backwards areas (:-) as "New Jersey" describe simular findings.  They find a
group more interested in fight-practice than arts or breadth of any experience. 
They find groups ruled by one household whose intent seems to be getting drunk,
not growth in the SCA. 

	Admittedly, Bhakail's dance programs have rivaled Carolingias.  The
Ostgaard Rapier Company lifted the CRC Charter lock-stock-and-barrel (but it
never grew very large after the initial show).  There is a growing interest in
Dance.  There are people strongly involved in painting and other arts in Jersey
and elsewhere.  But, these are individuals, not groups. 

	The Northern groups seems to strive to work together.  We have less
individual effort and more Guild's in Carolingia.  The North seems to have a
virtual monopoly on large fencing groups (Bergental, CRC, Northguard).  The
Northern Army is a good example of the North working-together to form something
much bigger than what a single individual can do!

	The Northern Crown significantly differ from the Southern Crowns.  I 
have lots of unsubstantiated reasonings.  Talking to one Northern Crown he
throught that how they viewed "the Crown, Chivalry, and Nobless Oblige"
differed substantially.  I have noted that the use of households, entourage,
and staff are vastely different.  The Northern Crowns had a diverse set of
help, while the Southern Crowns seemed to rely on their household for
everything.

	In fencing, we (meaning Northern fencers) are recreating the Duel, the
Prize, not the Swashbuckling Rogues that one may find in the Southern and
Western reaches.  Simply, our calibration is lighter, our bouts friendlier, and
fencing more precise.  Our fencers are more-likely to use a foil, and they
don't scoff at those that use one.  Heavier weapons (usually touted by those
who claim to be doing something more period but don't know the difference
between Didier and Silver) are rarely found, and when they are - not used for
competition purposes.

4) There is a sense of cohesion within the New England states.  

	We all consider Elspeth a friend and neighbor.  Our few fighters
usually fight in the Northern Army.  Fencers in the New England states can
reliably assume that the fencing will be alike or simular no matter where they
fence in New England.  Gregory's Rapiers are becoming commonplace.  Randel and
Katherine are not "who?"  they are a "known" set of former royalty. 
Rivendell's presence is fealt in Malgentia to Bergental to Carolingia to the
Pennsic War Points (in the form of the Northern Archers kicking butt).

	There are fencing styles that are unique to the North.  Malgentia,
Bergental, BBM, Carolingia all know how to use their point.  Even though we
exported a great deal of expertise to the South, their propensity for the edge
has not left those fencers.

	Fighting in the North has a large contigent of poll-arm fighters.  Its
no surprise that in the final rounds of Crown that Northern contenders often
are seen with their Poll-arm while the South has strength with
Sword-and-Shield.  (I wonder what the statistics say on Northern contenders and
weapon forms?)  I suspect the fighters out there will point at WereSheep,
SilverDragon, et al as a contributer to this.

	For the longest time there was dancing in Carolingia, Bhakail, Bridge, 
BBM, BMDL and NO_WHERE_ELSE.  In part, Justin's efforts has changed this.  Now
we can see almost all of the North Dancing and some of the South :-).

	Our households are more-likely to work together that to fight one
another.  Maybe that is a phenomenia of the past in the South, but when I was
there it was a major destructive point.	

	Simply, anyone active in the North KNOWS most of the Northern populace
by sight.  Now, here's a question Justin: what are the major households in
Jersey?  Compare that to "what are the Major Households in Maine".  Or "VT"
or... "CT"


5) More opportunities to have things work to "our way" as opposed to a
compromise of two diverse opinions.

	We are still forming the East.  It is a changing entity.  BUT, it
changes slower now that argument after argument must be worked through.  Why
such a great gridlock?  Because the viewpoints are vastely different when you
compare a Malgentian to a Boggy.  With a smaller number of people and a smaller
geography over which communication can be made, we can resolve conflict easier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having covered only some of the Pros, lets talk about this Central verses
Northern Principality.

If that is presented, I would prefer that we have NEITHER.  Why?  Because it
would fragement the Kingdom with no appearant benifit.  The Central Region does
not need a Prince.  There is no reason that I have EVER SEEN for us to need
more royalty or laws or awards or... anything.  We get enough attention as it
is.  Most people in the Central Region can get to all other places (thats why
we are the "CENTRAL" region :-).

The Northern Region does not have enough Peers.  (BTW: Central Regional
Muckity-Mucks are always welcomed in the North.  AND, Central Regional people
are welcomed even if they are not a muckity-muck.)  They do not have the same
breadth of experience that is found in the Central Region.  They have benifited
by the assistance that their Southern Neighbors have given them.  

If we were one Principality/Kingdom, we should divide into working regions. 
Our present N/S division is basically stupid.  In the Northern mailing list, I
grouped groups on "travel" and "interests".  I can do that here if you folks
"really" want me to go through those reasonings, again.

Why if not all, none?  Because, the North will have a REALLY HARD TIME making
it without help from the South.  (They might deny this, but look at StoneMarche
as an example of "ROCKY" beginnings.  They have not had an easy time of it over
the past N+ years. As it is, there are individuals who are holding StoneMarche
together; I expect a "group identity" is forming there but it has taken years!) 
There will be a percieved wall between a Northern Principality and the rest of
the Kingdom.  (See Aethelmearc as an example of that!  They don't travel out,
we  don't travel in.  They complain about it and we agree that they are right. 
No surprise!)  Assume that a wall will exist on the Boarder of the Principality
that few will cross (yea, I would... because I firmly have one foot on each
side of the line).

All the problems of Kingdom Size will remain with more complications.  The
Northern Region is not ready for Kingdom status this decade.  The North and
Central might be if they ever could agree to go (which I don't expect to happen
quickly).

NS and Newfoundland would become relegated to the Northern Regional Princes
and People.  Carolingia and others with affluence who travel there would find
other places to go thinking these are covered by the NR royals and people.  The
events in the way-North will likely get LESS U.S. involvement.  (Its not like
VT/ME/NH economies are going to support this travel... if anything they are
likely to get worse before they get better. MA, at least, is beginning to get
better!)  I think two Principalities or one "Northern-Region-Only" Principality
would murder the far-North.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to "what happens to the rest of the East" discussion that Mike/Herald
brought up, this is largely a question in light of Aethelmearc.  You see, 
Aethelmearc is so large an sprawling that it leaves little else available to
the Southern region.  Moreover, Aethelmearc is made up of such a diverse set of
groups that I am surprised they got along well enough to form a Principality! 
As a group, they have as much "commonality" as StoneMarche's three Shires did. 
They can make it work, but it will take a lot of effort.

Better, I think, is to take some of the boarder groups off of Aethelmearc and
create a stonger set of "Crown Lands".  

Example: All the groups in the Western Tier of NY, Western PA, and WV could be
one group.  All the groups in NY, NJ, Eastern PA, DE could be another.  The
issue is where to divide the PA line (The Confed Lands).  (Note: this moved
Delftwood, Coppertree, Mirkfallen, etc back into the Eastern Crown Lands.)

Of course, this discussion is a little "late" in the game.

Herold, I value your desire to keep BMDL and Carolingia together.  We are
sister Baronies, but the times are moving us apart.  (Now, if we could get BMDL
to join the Northern Principality movement... now that would be a trick! :-)

There is a lot more to say, but this should dig a deep enough grave for me
today! :-)

-Danulf